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[quote="jmd"][quote="GvC"] Und das geht so [/quote] Ja Es geht aber auch mit einem Trick und da muß man kaum was rechnen[/quote]
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<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="100%" class="forumline"> <tr> <th class="thCornerL" width="22%" height="26">Autor</th> <th class="thCornerR">Nachricht</th> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jmd</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 13. Dez 2013 18:20<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>GvC hat Folgendes geschrieben:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote"> Und das geht so <br /></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br />Ja <br />Es geht aber auch mit einem Trick und da muß man kaum was rechnen</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>GvC</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 13. Dez 2013 15:49<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>123-michi19 hat Folgendes geschrieben:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Bis zu der Formel hab ich es jetzt gecheckt. Darf ich dich noch fragen, wie sich diese zusammensetzt?</td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Wie die Formel sich zusammensetzt, steht doch schon da. Vermutlich willst Du aber wissen, wie sie hergeleitet wird. Und das geht so: <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?\Delta E=\frac{1}{2}\cdot D\cdot s_2^2-\frac{1}{2}\cdot D\cdot s_1^2=\frac{1}{2}\cdot D\cdot (s_2^2-s_1^2)"> <br /> <br />Dritte Binomische Formel angewendet: <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?\Delta E=\frac{1}{2}\cdot D\cdot (s_2+s_1)\cdot (s_2-s_1)=\frac{1}{2}\cdot D\cdot (s_2+s_2)\cdot\Delta s"> <br /> <br />Mit <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?D=\frac{\Delta F}{\Delta s}"> <br /> <br />ergibt sich <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?\Delta E=\frac{1}{2}\cdot\frac{\Delta F}{\Delta s}\cdot (s_2+s_1)\cdot \Delta s=\frac{1}{2}\cdot\Delta F\cdot (s_2+s_1)"> <br /> <br />Dabei ist <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?s_2=s_1+\Delta s"> <br /> <br />Einsetzen <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?\Delta E=\frac{1}{2}\cdot\Delta F\cdot (s_1+\Delta s+s_1)=\frac{1}{2}\cdot\Delta F\cdot (2\cdot s_1+\Delta s)"> <br /> <br />Erinnerung: <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?s_1=\frac{F_1}{D}=F_1\cdot\frac{\Delta s}{\Delta F}"> <br /> <br />Einsetzen: <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?\Delta E=\frac{1}{2}\cdot\Delta F\cdot \left( 2\cdot F_1\cdot\frac{\Delta s}{\Delta F}+\Delta s\right) "> <br /> <br />Ausmultiplizieren: <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?\Delta E=F_1\cdot\Delta s+\frac{1}{2}\cdot\Delta F\cdot \Delta s"> <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?\Delta s"> ausklammern: <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?\Delta E=\left( F_1+\frac{1}{2}\cdot\Delta F\right)\cdot\Delta s"></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:45<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Bis zu der Formel hab ich es jetzt gecheckt. Darf ich dich noch fragen, wie sich diese zusammensetzt?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jmd</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:40<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">50N = D*s1 <br /> <br />Das war die Ausgangsposition <br />s1 ist also 0,15m <br /> <br /> <br />200N = 333,34 Nm * s2 <br /> <br />Das ist die Endposition <br />s2=0,6m <br /> <br />die Differenz s2-s1=0,45m wie es in der Aufgabe steht <br /> <br />das ist also schon mal gut <br /> <br /> <br />die gesuchte Differenz der Energien ist dann <br /> <br />E2-E1=56,25J <br /> <br />Das mußt du jetzt noch berechnen <br /> <br /> <br />Idealerweise ist das die Lösung <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php? \Delta E=(F_{1}+\frac{1}{2}\Delta F) \Delta s"> <br /> <br />Man muß also D garnicht berechnen <img src="images/smiles/wink.gif" alt="Augenzwinkern" border="0" /> <br /> <br />Schönen Abend noch</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:29<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Oh mann, ich check's einfach nicht <br /> <br />50N = D*s1 <br />200N = 333,34 Nm * s2 <br /> <br />Jetzt nach s2 auflösen? <br /> <br />200N / 333,34 Nm = 0,60m</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jmd</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:26<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"></span><table width="90%" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="3" border="0" align="center"><tr> <td><span class="genmed"><b>123-michi19 hat Folgendes geschrieben:</b></span></td> </tr> <tr> <td class="quote">Ich glaube, ich habe dich falsch verstanden. <br />150 N = 333,34 Nm * s2 <br /></td> </tr></table><span class="postbody"> <br /> <br />Nee <br /> <br />die Kraft vergrößert sich um 150N <br /> <br />200N = 333,34 Nm * s2</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:21<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Ich glaube, ich habe dich falsch verstanden. <br /> <br />50 N = D * s1 <br />150 N = 333,34 Nm * s2 <br /> <br /> <br />Stimmt dies?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jmd</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:18<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Das darf doch nicht wahr sein <br /> <br />ich habe doch gerade das hingeschrieben <br /> <br />50N=D*s1 <br /> <br />F1=D*s1</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:13<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Ok, dann sollte es folgendermaßen lauten: <br /> <br />50N = 333,34 Nm * (s1)² <br /> <br />12,91 = s1</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jmd</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:10<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">50N=D*s1</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:08<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Um das (s1)² berechnen zu können, brauche ich ja noch E? <br /> <br />Wäre dies bei mir 200N ( 150N + 50N) ?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jmd</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 23:03<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">E1 = 0,5 * 333,34 N/m * (s1)² (Einheit der Federkonstanten beachten) <br />das ist die Ausgangsposition <br />dieses s1 mußt du noch berechnen <br /> <br />E2 ist dann?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 22:52<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Ok, das verstehe ich nicht ganz. Dann wäre die erste: <br /> <br />E = 0,5 * 333,34 Nm * (0,45m)² <br /> <br />Und die zweite dann?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>jmd</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 22:46<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Du mußt 2 Energiegleichungen aufstellen <br />und die Differenz ist dann die Lösung</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 22:33<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Und jetzt kann ich ganz normal mit der Formel E=0,5xDxs^2 weiterrechnen?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>planck1858</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 22:29<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"><img src="images/smiles/up.gif" alt="Thumbs up!" border="0" /></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 22:20<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Ich gehe jetzt mal davon aus, dass ich hier D=150N/0,45m = 333,34 Nm <br />Berechnen muss?</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row2"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>planck1858</b></span></td> <td class="row2" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 22:16<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: </span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody">Hi, <br /> <br />berechne erstmal die Federkonstante D! <br /> <br /><img class="latex2png" src="https://www.matheboard.de/latex2png/latex2png.php?D=\frac{F}{s}"></span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> <tr> <td width="22%" align="left" valign="top" class="row1"><span class="name"><a name=""></a><b>123-michi19</b></span></td> <td class="row1" height="28" valign="top"><table width="95%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"> <tr> <td width="95%"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost.gif" width="12" height="9" alt="Beitrag" title="Beitrag" border="0" /><span class="postdetails">Verfasst am: 12. Dez 2013 22:01<span class="gen"> </span> Titel: Energieerhaltung</span></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><hr /></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2"><span class="postbody"><span style="font-weight: bold">Meine Frage:</span><br />Hi zusammen,<br /><br />Eine Schraubfeder wird durch die Kraft 50,0N vorgespannt. Durch Vergrössern der Kraft um 150N dehnt sich die Feder um 45 cm. Welche Arbeit ist zu dieser zusätzlichen Dehnung nötig?<br /><br /><span style="font-weight: bold">Meine Ideen:</span><br />E = 0,5 x D x s^2<br /><br />D= F/s</span></td> </tr> </table></td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" height="1" class="spaceRow"><img src="templates/subSilver/images/spacer.gif" alt="" width="1" height="1" /></td> </tr> </table>
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